Spoken like someone who doesn't know anyone who has ADHD, e.g., someone who has no idea what they're talking about. Also, your little rant is completely off topic.
Spoken like someone who would have said the same about hysteria for hundreds of years. (And would have been considered very wrong given what we know today). Societal factors upstream matter a great deal, and medical inteventions downstream are usually revealed to be a bandaid.
According to the CDC, roughly 9.5% of children in the USA have been diagnosed with ADHD, whereas research based in Europe shows that between 3.5% and 5.6% of children in France have been diagnosed with ADHD. Why do you think that is? There has to be a non-medical explanation, don’t you think?
Same goes with the massive rise in diabetes and obesity in the USA, they engineer high fructose corn syrup into many things, people eat lots of things that turn into sugars, insulin resistance is high, but funny that so little of the industry discusses prevention of diabetes and obesity, they simply treat it as a fait accompli — including in kids, once again a new phenomenon. (In fact it has been shown to have a lot of comorbidities with coronavirus complications — but one is a national emergency, the other is not).
I have seen the same kind of reponses on HN when it came to depression and skepticism that SSRIs are the solution. Until all the studies came out last year, any skepticism was met with “you have no idea what real clinical depression is like. It is primarily caused by a chemical imbalance, needs medical intervention and you know nothing! So please don’t participate in the conversation, let the dominant ideology be the only acceptable one.” https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/2022...
Don’t get me wrong — there are real medical cases in kids of ADHD, gender dysphoria, etc. Or depression in adults, or genetically based insultin resistance. But the fact that it is diagnosed now way more than before means that maybe - just maybe - societal and dietary factors play a huge role. This has to deal with human happiness after all. And that includes people on HN.
Whether self-pleasuring with a hand, or with a vibrating device, the societal factors (of hookup culture, or of cost of rent in cities to own your own place and delay marriage, or everyone getting married later because women now want to focus on their career, while gender age gaps remain similar) matter and should be systematically explored. This article or the nofap movement or women's tacit use of vibrating devices, are all quiet ways to cope with many societal structural changes.
The fact that you think it is off-topic to discuss major societal issues upstream of a phenomenon just goes to show how myopic our culture's approach is to these issues.
> Whether self-pleasuring with a hand, or with a vibrating device, the societal factors (of hookup culture, or of cost of rent in cities to own your own place and delay marriage, or everyone getting married later because women now want to focus on their career, while gender age gaps remain similar) matter and should be systematically explored. This article or the nofap movement or women's tacit use of vibrating devices, are all quiet ways to cope with many societal structural changes.
I am raising my eyebrow at this. You want to look upstream at hookups, declining marriage, women's financial independence and their use of vibrators? When that conversation turns to "traditional" gender roles in religion, I win a prize for calling it early.
Anyway, even if there is some tractable upstream problem we can eventually solve, we still have to deal with the people who are already downstream. For them, the diagnosis and treatment of diseases is valuable, even if we deal with the root cause so future generations don't suffer.
I think if you're looking for some cookie-cutter viewpoint, you'll be disappointed, and no you won't win a prize.
If you look at the rest of my comments on this branch of the tree, you'll find that I am identifying a pattern... whenever X vs Y start fighting (women vs men, vaxxers vs antivaxxers, vegans vs meat eaters, ) there is a bigger issue that involves government and corporations working together, while individuals are distracted and blaming each other.
(2021) https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=362 Super-processed Foods and obesity, Factory farms and veganism, Plastic containers and recycling, Fossil fuels and climate change, Vaccines and mask mandates
Both Greta Thurnberg and George Carlin are right. The people in charge have not just failed us, but the entire system is pushing the individual around. What you perceive as a medication you have to take is a symptom of an underlying systemic issue.
Just in the last few decades we have had:
an opioid epidemic for men
one in four middle aged women uses antidepressants
elderly in nursing homes are medicated more than ever
a huge rise in diagnosis of ADHD, autism, gender dysphoria for kids
did I miss any demographic? adult men, women, elderly and children are given medication, and somehow people are more depressed than before. (Sometimes even more than countries with seasonal affective disorder.)
There are many societal reasons I could get into, but let's look at a few other ones:
attention spans of adults have steadily fallen
(not just ADD for kids) to that of a goldfish
stress levels are higher than they used to be
obesity and diabetes has risen tremendously in USA
(including in children)
Perhaps we should really look at upstream issues, like technology, economic system, social institutions, cultural influences / celebrities / TikTok / notifications / incentives.
Yes in some ways I am a social conservative. But it seems to me, just like "postmodernism", my views are more progressive than "progressives" LOL. I want the government and industry to stop dominating our lives, our time, making us work and telling us that "having no time" is a badge of honor. You're right that I want most women not to "lean in" at work, but I also say that exact thing to the men... if we had a UBI, we could all "lean out", and spend more time with our kids an elderly parents who took care of us, instead of sticking them in nursing homes, that would be a start.
As someone who suffers a lot from "lack of ability to focus" and fits the nail on the head for adhd diagnosis, I appreciate your passion on this topic a lot. I recently came to the realization a lot of my failures in my life are from adhd. From doing my own research I decided that I do not have a medical condition and do not need to get a diagnosis to get medication. Certain tasks in this modern world are very hard for people like me but that does not mean I have a "neurodevelopmental disorder"
I am who I am and have strengths and weaknesses. I genuinely believe my 'adhd' is a blessing because there are certain things I am exceptional at that other people are not yet things that many people can do well and easily I struggle a lot with. Every day is painful, it has been a hard journey but I can see the brightness at the end of the tunnel getting brighter and brighter as I mature and learn to use my strengths more effectively. :)
My friend it's a false dichotomy: you can keep your talents and maybe ease your struggle too.
Most stimulant medication is something you can try for a day, see immediately if it's effective or not, then never take again in your life if it isn't for you. Don't suffer needlessly because of misguided bigots like the one above.
I have tried ritalin, vyanse, and adderall in college before. Those drugs scare me because they are in my opinion the greatest drugs in the world. When I am on them I literally become the movie limitless in real life. I feel more amazing than ever and I want to take them all the time. I would like to solve my issues without becoming reliant on medication. It feels like a patch rather than a solution. Lately I have been trying meditation. If it cures my 'adhd' I will let you know
Were you prescribed those drugs, or did you take them recreationally? It's important to work with a doctor to find the dosage that works for you, and it may be much lower than what you would take recreationally. There are also non-amphetamine medications that can help if you aren't comfortable with adderall and friends. There are also behavioral approaches to ADHD that you could explore with a medical professional.
Since your username contains "420," I will add that marijuana is a bad idea if you are struggling with ADHD symptoms. It may make you feel more productive, but it will greatly exasperate your ADHD tendencies.
I am not a doctor, but can I suggest a non-medical intervention that probably doesn't have any adverse effects, but may help?
Under capitalism, the social networks compete for your attention, by sending you notifications. It's a "tragedy of the commons" where the commons is human attention: if Facebook doesn't get you to click during dinner, then Twitter will, and then it'll grow through those tactics. Thus the market forces these corporations to give you addictive newsfeeds, tell you when someone replied to your comment, etc. There are analyses comparing the brain to pavlov's dogs and the addiction to a slot machine.
1) Realize you are NOT alone or atypical. The human attention span has declined because of the system we live in. We now have shorter attention spans than goldfish. https://www.wyzowl.com/human-attention-span/
2) Notice how much of your ADHD is connected to anxiety and investigate the causes of that anxiety, maybe with a psychotherapist or other counsellor. Map out what kind of things you are afraid could happen if you don't react to them quickly. See if you can rearrange your life to diminish the need for quick responses (such as Slack or real-time chats). Consider worst-case scenarios and if you also have OCD, consider ERP therapy.
3) Learn to use "Focus" on your phone, to turn off distractions for long periods of "Flow". Set expectations with people (this may be hard if you work in capitalism for an employer) to schedule times to talk to you, and only allow calls for emergencies from friends and family. It will take you AT LEAST A WEEK after you remove your anxiety of missing something important, to start fully relaxing and not expecting a notification to jump out at you.
4) Watch the movie "the social dilemma" and try out its recommendations (taking 1 day a week off from all electronics completely -- live how people have lived throughout history) and spend it socializing with people, eating dinner, reading a book, etc.
5) Look at your sleep, diet, are you taking walks or exercising? What is your job? Anyway, there is so much you can investigate holistically and take control in your life, before you ever have to consider that ritalin is your only hope. (And if you do want to try a nootropic, you can try modafinil perhaps... it's not an amphetamine... but again, I think medications take away our agency and should be tried only if all else fails)
None of that requires medication, so try that first.
I would definitely appreciate it if at some point in the future (a month, 6 months, or whenever) you emailed me and told me whether what I said made any difference -- positive or negative. You can find my contact info in my profile.
Bigot [definition] a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
I do not recall being antagonistic towards people with ADHD. On the contrary, the resources I have linked to (such as the book https://www.amazon.es/ADHD-Hunter-Farmers-Thom-Hartmann/dp/1...) are by people whose kids have ADHD and they opted to embrace them and accept them, rather than saying they have effectively a neurological disorder. You can make similar cases for autism spectrum, gender dysphoria and so on being zealously overdiagnosed and medicated (https://www.statnews.com/2022/02/10/theres-no-autism-epidemi...)
Medication is often a band-aid and the default way systems handle a cog in a machine. One in four middle-aged women is on antidepressants. Do you think they are ALL clinically depressed? And the opiates that men started to take have reached epidemic proportions too... surely, you wouldn't call everyone a bigot who wants to address the underlying societal reasons for this? Or you'd be the guy prescribing vodka to every USSR citizen as a way to deal with issues?
You are redefining the word "bigot" to mean its opposite, it seems. A system that systematically ignores meeting the basic needs of humans, and then dismisses their resulting behavior as "irrational" or "needing medication" is far worse than a bigot. It's like systemic racism or sexism, but directed against non-neurotypical kids, or adults or elderly.
Were people bigots who said "women have real needs that need to be addressed, stop delegitimizing their real issues by labeling them all as Hysterical Women (TM) and sending them to the doctor to get tittilated"? Because today, we agree with all those people, but in the past, we didn't. To borrow another politically loaded term, you could be on the "wrong side of history", just like people who defended lobotomies and medicating hysterical women.
Maybe you should look into the profit motive of doctors and pharma who stand to gain from more medications. And the school administrators who need to cover their own ass before actually caring about the kids and speaking to their parents. I happen to know about such school administrators and cases personally. The SYSTEM doesn't care about the parents, nor the kids, nor the grandparents which they also stick into nursing homes and medicate -- because again, they need to work 10 hour days to pay the rent. Just like under socialism, the capitalist system externalizes costs onto individuals, you should open your eyes. Try looking at some links I posted above. What you call bigotry, I call basic concern that society should have for human beings.
People who have ADHD are used to being told they just need to stop being lazy. They already have to overcome a huge stigma to seek diagnosis and accept treatment. So, yes you are being "antagonistic towards...people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." Your solution seems to be that instead of seeking scientifically validated treatment that has already helped millions of people, they change the socioeconomic system they exist in, in which they have to work a 9 to 5 to provide for themseleves and their families. This is not practical advice. So not only are you peddling medical quackery, but you don't even offer a snake oil alternative to the audience you're demoralizing.
You also create a false dichotomy in which either modern society fails in certain ways to meet all of our needs to the detriment of people diagnosed with ADHD, or ADHD is a legitimate mental illness that benefits from pharmaceutical and therapeutic treatments. Both things are true.
