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I don't think your response is in good faith, since you are responding to a comment where I explicitly say that I have made no reference to where someone is born, only to their allegiance.

Do you not understand what the term "national" means? A significant number of US nationals were not born here, being born here is not a prerequisite to be a national. While the same is largely not true for China, there are many people born in China who are no longer Chinese nationals because they have renounced their citizenship as part of immigrating and naturalizing elsewhere. The statement I made is not about ethnicity or birthplace, it's about allegiance. /Every/ citizen of China is required by Chinese law to participate in espionage either directly or indirectly as requested, and they are requested, the evidence is insurmountable.



> there are many people born in China who are no longer Chinese nationals because they have renounced their citizenship as part of immigrating and naturalizing elsewhere.

Do tell, how does one go about naturalizing elsewhere?

In the country I live in, it typically takes over ten years and requires establishing a support system in said country first (employment, social connection, etc).

If you ban everyone from a country from immigrating (which is exactly what you're proposing for all birthright citizenship countries), you prevent naturalization from even being a possibility.

You claiming I'm arguing in bad faith while ignoring the Titanic sinking your argument did give me a chuckle though, I grant you that.


I stopped replying in this thread earlier due to dang’s comment. I am not going to respond fully, as your response is clearly /not/ in good faith.

> If you ban everyone from a country from immigrating (which is exactly what you're proposing for all birthright citizenship countries)

Nowhere do I say anything of the sort. I am pro—immigration generally.

Stop trying to put words in my mouth and then battling the straw man.


> I don't think your response is in good faith

I don't think yours's is, you pretend to draw a difference where no practical distinction exists.

For 95% of people worldwide, birthplace IS nationality - you get 1 by birth, and only have 1. You can't renounce it, that would make you illegal alien.

If you put up a corporate email "specifically Chinese citizens will get no promotions this year" you will have immediate lawsuits on your hands, it is discriminatory.

Instead you should own up to to the fact that your position is illiberal, and provide serious evidence that the threat is so great, that liberal principles must be abandoned. Of course that is much tougher and less palatable argument to make.




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